May 31, 2025
By Mateen Ali
To give Palestinian voices a platform, Voicepk spoke with Palestinian rights activists, including Shawan Jabarin, Director General of Al Haq, a West Bank based human rights organization and Mahmoud Nawaja, National Committee General Coordinator of the BDS Movement, to gain deeper insight into the ongoing situation in Gaza and the West Bank.
Our conversation explored a wide range of topics, including the Western political response to Israeli actions, the strength of economic and diplomatic ties that may hinder accountability, and whether the current crisis constitutes a genocide under international law.
We also discussed Western complicity, the role of media bias, and the feasibility of long-standing proposals like the two-state solution. The activists offered a critical perspective on recent developments, including delayed sanctions, the political motives behind Israeli actions, and what meaningful steps are urgently needed on the ground.
Mateen Ali: The first thing I’d like to discuss with you is the response of Western leadership in the ongoing situation in Gaza and West Bank. We’ve seen intense criticism and immediate condemnation of any sort of Russian aggressions in Ukraine. Do you see the same level of commitment and urgency when it comes to Israeli aggressions in Gaza?
Shawan Jabarin: The Western countries, I think they have double standards and they are selective when it comes to the international law and respecting the international law.
This is clear from their reaction to Russia on Ukraine and also at the same time, now more than one year and eight months, the continuing genocide in Gaza and it was no strong reaction, even by words, even by words at that time. This has showed, I think, the level of the injustice. This shows also the culture of the Western countries when it comes to rule of law and when it comes to the respect of international law.
But after this time, people on the ground, at the public level, their human conscience wake up early time and that’s, I think, now pressuring the officials to take a different approach and the new tone we see, it comes from that area. But this is a new tone, this is good on the theoretical level and awards level, but we will watch and see and follow what the action will be. Because without actions, Israel, they will continue committing their crimes and they will think that they are above the international law principles and they are enjoying impunity.
Mahmoud Nawaja: First, let’s keep in mind that somehow so many states are just having some empty slogans because they are complicit in the genocide against Palestinian people and those are fine with committing a genocide in Gaza, they will be fine with committing a genocide in Asia, Pacific and also in Africa. So it’s a genocide not only against Gaza, but it’s a genocide against the Global South. And those are not taking measures because they are complicit in the genocide.
Jabarin: The Western countries, their absence and their lack of actions because they have a lack of political will, they have a lack of respecting and implementing the international law. Let’s see which actions they are speaking about.
Ali: What, in your opinion, is the reason for this hesitation? Are the economic and political ties too strong to acknowledge the possibility even that war crimes may have been committed?
Jabarin: One, they have a historical responsibility.
Since the beginning of the last century, they helped to create Israel in 1948. Britain, they are an old responsible and the French also in the 1950s, they provided the nuclear weapons to Israel. Since that time, there is many things in cooperation with Israel.
Israel is benefiting from this agreement called the Association Agreement, more than $30 billion. $30 billion mainly when it comes to the research. And they are making joint research, which Israel benefited from that, to use and to develop even military weapons to attack Gaza.
More than that, I think the unconditional support to Israel from the US and the US administration, they are complicit with the genocide going on in Gaza because their weapons are used to attack children, women, men, all civilians in Gaza. And you see here the connections, the economic connections, political connections, research connections, benefiting from both sides with each other. That’s the case.
But more than that, it’s a settler colonial mentality still deep, deep in the Western countries.
Ali: Given the nature of events happening in Gaza, would you describe this as a genocide? I mean, the case at ICJ is still pending, but in your assessment, does it meet the criteria outlined in the 1948 Genocide Convention?
Nawaja: The ICJ based on the criteria, they said there is a possibility of genocide. And genocide came through the Israeli fascist leader that they clearly said that we are going to commit genocide against Gaza.
Nawaja: And now they’re using famine and starvation as a weapon of ethnic cleansing and a weapon against, they weaponize starvation against the people.
So we are talking about a genocide because they are targeting everyone in Gaza. And there is the intention of killing civilians, killing people. And then the destruction of everything in Gaza as well, and also the ethnic cleansing.
So now they are pushing people to the south. They try to push people from the north to the middle and then to the south to what they call safe zones, but safe zones for ethnic cleansing and displacement of Palestinians. And now they are trying to get this aid going to the south only.
So people have to travel from the north to the south and the middle of Gaza to the south in a way that they will be preventing them from getting back to their area and their houses. So I mean, every criteria, according to Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, many other human rights organizations, they said that Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza. And now they are also committing another crime, which is the famine and starvation of the whole population in Gaza.
Jabarin: The Israeli officials, they express their intention publicly. You don’t need, you don’t need even to follow my analysis here or there, just follow their statements.
This is the legal language that, and this is what sets the responsibility on the shoulders of the third state parties. That’s all of the third state parties over the world. That’s the case because here is a genocide and they have to stop a genocide with all means, using all means, including also the military means if it needs, like what happened for instance in Yugoslavia, former Yugoslavia.
When NATO at that time, they used, you know, weapons and, you know, military campaign, carried out a military campaign against Yugoslavia. I think it’s a time for intervention in all means and in all ways to stop the ongoing genocide. The only thing left from this system is the international judiciary system, the International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court.
That’s what’s left because they are ruling and they are trying to do their work regarding these things and to answer, legally speaking, to answer all of the questions before them and also to act according to their jurisdictions.
Ali: We’ve seen major developments in the past, particularly the Oslo courts in the 90s, where both sides to some extent agreed to explore the two-state solution. Do you think those efforts laid sufficient groundwork for a long-term peace in the region?
Jabarin: Look, Oslo Accords, it wasn’t a peace agreement.
It wasn’t a peace agreement. No one word mentioned about occupation. No one word mentioned about the UN resolutions relating to this case.
No one issue spoke about the international and respect and implement the international law. It wasn’t built on the basis of international law principles and the UN resolutions. Because of that, it was built between two parties, but they were not equal parties.
One of them under full settler colonial regime and apartheid regime and occupation. And the other part is with the full power, imposed everything that they want. And in the last 31 years of so called peace process, we saw that the occupation is deepening, the apartheid declared dominating over everything, and the settler colonial deepening also, and the Palestinians are isolated.
We saw how the settlements have flourished like a mushroom everywhere, how the small settler communities here or there became as big cities. Now, when you go, Mateen, everywhere, everywhere in the West Bank, for instance, all the cities, all the villages, all the towns, all Palestinian communities in the area, it’s blocked by and closed by, you know, metal gates.
Nawaja: They added almost a thousand gates. The West Bank is becoming as small ghettos, isolated by apartheid wall, bypass roads, military bases, Israeli military bases. And now they added all these gates against Palestinian communities in the West Bank.
Jabarin: They don’t give a meaning even to their slogan called two-state solution.
Ali: Well, the two-state solution has long been the international community’s preferred outcome.
Jabarin: How? How it comes you recognize Israel, you support Israel unconditionally in all levels, economically, financially, culturally, militarily, all of these things. But at the same time, you don’t recognize, even at that level, which is a symbolic level, at that level, they haven’t, you know, most of them, they haven’t recognized the Palestinian state and they haven’t given any meaning to the two-state solution to that level.
Ali: Netanyahu on several occasions has expressed that the release of hostages is their top priority. Do you believe the return of hostages could potentially speed up the resolution of the conflict or the current military escalation, at least?
Nawaja: No, no, no. Israel is not. Israel is just using that to justify the genocide. If they are willing to have an end of what’s happening, they could agree on a ceasefire and a long-term ceasefire with the resistance in Gaza. But they are just using that to justify what they are doing, what they are doing now against our people.
It’s been very, very clear from Netanyahu’s latest press conference and statements that even if he got the prisoners from Gaza, there will be no ceasefire by any means. So it’s not about freeing any, it’s not about freeing anyone, but it’s about using this to justify a genocide against our people.
Ali: Will a change in government make a difference?
Nawaja: No, because it’s, I mean, it’s not really the government.
It’s the structure of the settler colonial apartheid regime. Whenever government changes, the change of the strategy will be from a very strong visible act to a softer, non-visible act. So this is what would be changed from the different governments that we witnessed, the different Israeli government that we witnessed.
They do the same, but in a different rate and in an invisible somehow way. But I mean, the plan was there 77 years ago and they’re still completing it. I mean, when they even when they signed the Oslo Accord in 1993, from 1993 to 1999, they were like, they doubled the settlers in the West Bank while Oslo Accord was saying that there should be a Palestinian state by 1999.
So imagine they signed on something and in reality, they imposed something really different. So it’s not about, it’s not about the government, it’s about the regime itself.
Ali: Well, then what do you think the final Israeli plan is regarding these territories?
Nawaja: I mean, the final plan was very clear from the first day. I mean, it’s very clear from 77 years of the ongoing Nakba. Their main plan is to ethnically cleanse all Palestinian communities everywhere. They don’t want to see any Palestinian in Palestine between the river and the sea.
So this is the main plan. But now there is a genocide and they are committing the genocide. And there is other plan of ethnic cleansing displacements.
That’s not only again happening in Gaza, but also happening in the West Bank as well. So this is the main plan, Palestine with no Palestinian at all. And this is happening because of the global complicity that is supporting Israel of its crimes against our people and the failure of the UN mechanism.
And even the ICJ itself and its rules is not being heard in so many different states, especially in Europe, where they are part of the jurisdiction of the courts.
Ali: I’d like to touch on the role of the media. For months now, media watchdogs like Open Democracy have been sounding alarm over significant bias in how the Western press is covering the war. In your view, has the reporting, particularly by Western outlets, have been fair and impartial? Or do you think they’ve been biased?
Jabarin: Unbiased, it was since the beginning, to be honest with you. Mainly the main media, like newspapers, the traditional one, the classic one, the official ones. I think they are more than biased.
They are even closing the door before the truth, you know, not to get the truth out to the public. This is a very important thing. But some of them, I think they are taking a good position.
In Britain, for instance, when it comes to the BBC, BBC, it’s a blind, it’s a biased TV, it’s a biased newspaper, it’s a biased company. It’s clear in that. Lately, they try to speak the word here or there.
But what’s after one year, eight months of committing and continuing to commit genocide in Gaza and also in West Bank? That’s the case.
Nawaja: No, I mean, mainly Western media reporting is biased. There is no neutrality in Western media. Even after 18 months of the genocide, they’re still using the same language. So many of the Western media, they enabled the genocide when they started spreading the lies and the fake news that happened on the 7th of October. That was even after that, after investigating, it was total lies.
And Israel admitted that. But then even this Western media, they didn’t cover the news that, okay, that was a lie, it’s fake news. And even Israeli officials are admitting that.
So they enabled the genocides. And they still, until now, they are still enabling the genocide against our people. If we have a non-biased media that can do fact-checking and broadcast facts, this would never happen.
But while the media, the mainstream media was very biased, social media played that role of giving the facts and the real news from the ground and the situation in Gaza, which helped us a lot in changing the public opinion towards what’s happening in Gaza. It took us so much time, but because the difficulties that created by the Western media of their reporting and being biased and enabling the genocide against our people.
Jabarin: But there is another thing that it’s not under their control 100%.
It’s called the social media. I call it the public media. The public media and all the social media, I think it’s a very important.
Because of that, we see what’s going on in Gaza. It’s like, this is unprecedented ever, ever, Mateen, in life. This is the first time that genocide committing, you know, and broadcasted alive, alive, directly, directly.
And no one can say, we don’t know. We don’t know. No one, officials, parliamentarians or Republicans can say, we don’t know.
Everyone knows.
Ali: What practical steps need to be taken right now?
Jabarin: Practically, the main thing and the priority is to stop, you know, and to push and to impose all states to play their roles, to push Israel to stop its genocide.
And also, in the same time to start rehabilitating and rebuilding of Gaza. That’s, this is the main thing. The second one is, the only way to pressure Israel to do that is to stop arming Israel.
Second, to also take sanctions, to impose sanctions on Israel. Sanctions with all means. Arms is one item.
Economic also relations with Israel. This is another item. The third one, Israeli leaders, they have not to enjoy a free visa to go this country to the other country.
Fourth, you have, or they have, to implement and to respect the decision and the warrant arrests of the International Criminal Court and to hold the criminals, the Israeli criminals accountable. Other than that, the Israelis military, they came from the rest of the world, you know, from every, every place. We have to go after them at the national level.
Means to activate also the universal jurisdiction, to activate the local, you know, judiciary, to activate, to go after those they commit and they did, you know, international crimes like war crimes and crimes against humanity. And the Israeli soldiers, they are flourished over the world. And they come, they came from the rest of the world to here to help and to kill Palestinians and to go, you know, in Gaza, doing all of these things.
And I think every one of you can do something, can do something.
Ali: Thank you again, Mr. Shawan and Mr. Mahmoud for your time. And we sincerely hope that the conflict comes to an end very soon.